pandemonium 
Our Wednesday International Yahoo Chat
(Every Week, Wednesday afternoon, on Yahoo, starting at
2.00 PM, New York, at 2.00 PM. Venezuelan Time, at 8.00 PM, German Time.)
Jutta (Merida, Venezuela)
Scott (Florida, USA)
Franz (Merida, Venezuela)
(Very Slightly Revised, Original Version)
MAY 8, 2002
PLEASE NOTE:
Take all the typographic errors as Pandemonium
Greetings, it would take hours and hours to edit this
particularmanuscript; it would absorb too much valuable
"time" to correct everything!
Hence, please, accept our apology! We'll check
the manuscript to avoid any possible errors that may
cause misunderstanding. Chats, by their very nature,
are not perfect scientifictreatises.)
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In future, until further notice, regularly
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sometimes, even on Sundays, we will have all
chats regularly
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Kindly download and install the latest
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**************************************************************
INTRODUCTION
.....
Yahoo! Messenger: You are now logged into voice conference - juttafranz-15545.
Yahoo! Messenger: jutta_schmitt2002 has joined the conference.
Yahoo! Messenger: nonpositivism has joined the conference.
jutta_schmitt2002: I'm in.
nonpositivism: Hi....well, what do you wish to discuss, friends?
jutta_schmitt2002: Hello Scott. Give me a minute please, guys.
juttafranz: Hi! Scott. We are the "Holy Trinity" today!
jutta_schmitt2002: Okay. Ready to start. It seems none of us has prepared
an introduction today, due to problems of participation of several members.
juttafranz: Well, Scott, everything within the context of the following
.....
nonpositivism: Yes, Jutta. Like good jazz musicians, we must improvise.
I am used to that.
juttafranz: Let's see your views concerning my "watch" that I sent
off a while ago:
jutta_schmitt2002: Okay. The context Franz will provide right now is
our "theme", and we will come up with the variations and improvisations.
nonpositivism: very good.
BRIEF INTRODUCTION ....
juttafranz: In the transhistoric light of the
Florida Elections and the Twin
Towers' Massacre, you ought to agree with me
that the Achilles
Heel of the current United States Government
is its Infinite
Fear of the Truth -- this is its downfall, its
weakest point!
juttafranz: The Emancipatory Bell of Truth is
already tolling for the Great Global
Bulldozer Of Obsolete Physical Labour, for the
Great Exterminator of Labour
and Labour Infrastructures, Forces and Goods
per se; as we said
so often, this will inexorably usher in the inglorious,
terrorist, military
farewell, the nihilist demise of the USA on the
galactic stage of
post-productive Creative History. You can murder
millions for millennia,
but you cannot fool Transhistoric Truth all the
time.
juttafranz: Beyond that, more and more, Bush reveals
himself daily as the
Obscure, Obscurantist Platonic-Republican, Maquiavellian
Prince of Blatant Lies. And, as you know, Lies
have very short
wings, because you have to invent a myriad of
untruths just to
cover up the very first one, and these in the
"Information Age",
reproduce themselves as global "information",
as disinformation
and infowarfare ad infinitum, ad absurdum.
juttafranz: Well, that's it, short and sweet -- any comments?
nonpositivism: Franz, this sounds like an apolcayptic vision (maybe you should talk to Francis Ford Coppola about making a sequel to his brilliant film Apocalypse Now
jutta_schmitt2002: Well Franz, you are rising the question-answer "quo vadis" - whither goest thou? in your brief context review.
juttafranz: Well, Scott, where do you live? In
Florida? In Hades?
juttafranz: Don't you see the Menetekel on the
Wall of the Deep South?
juttafranz: Jutta, there are some interesting
points made in that short letter.
nonpositivism: I wish I could agree with you, Franz but cannot. The US does not fear the Truth. "Truth" is irrelevant at best. What matters is Information, over which its Military and Corporate Media Conglomerates have overwhelming although not total control over at the current time. Unless some underground or counter-propaganda machine can figure out a way to challenge in the Information War, this scenario will remain a fantasy.
juttafranz: Firstly, the Fear, the "weakest point",
the "Achilles Heel" of the USA!
juttafranz: Any comments to that? True, False?
Both? None?
nonpositivism: Neither true nor false. More appropriate labeled: non-operational, not "in the field".
jutta_schmitt2002: Franz, let me try to formulate some questions with regard to our apocalyptic global setting. We have often spoken, in the context of equal, unequal and combined "development" of "tendencies" - latent ones, manifest ones, dominant ones, "dormant" ones. Is there any possible scenario where latent or dormant tendencies would, due to a given combination of circumstances, obtain an acceleration to the point they could actually challenge the dominant process / tendency at a given moment?
juttafranz: What we understand by "Truth", the Relation between Nature and Society, that is the "Truth" of History, is not being decided by the USA, at least not alone, and whether they take note of it, discard it, ignore it, as sure as Bush lives, he will die like any other person on this globe. This is the kind of Hegelian Truth that we speak about.
nonpositivism: Franz, understood. No one entity determines history. But there are forces, tides and eddies. It's almost like studying fluid dynamics. You know who presented an excellent technical analysis of the problem on which you and Jutta are converging, and came up with a rather pessimistic and violent solution?
juttafranz: Man cannot live on "information" alone -- in fact, with this strychnine generated by the USA Goebbels infowarfare machine, even Society, the once "Great Society" will vanish into controlled "artificial, cloned intelligence", even the Central Intelligence will fade into oblivion.
nonpositivism: Ted Kazinski a.k.a the Unabomber=> http://www.soci.niu.edu/~critcrim/uni/uni.txt
jutta_schmitt2002: Franz, please remember a discussion we had last week in the seminar, where we tried to explain the two sides of what has happened here in Venezuela, and what "chances" this tendency that appears here as the "Bolivarian Revolution" has, to survive or to perish. I tried to explain the aspect of the past - that this "revolution" gained its ideas and impulse from the past, and showed the historic limits, and its somehow being "obsolete". You explained the other aspect of it, its progressiveness, its being in a nascent state where it is still vulnerable, yet constitutes something new on the global horizon.
juttafranz: Jutta, continue to formulate your questions!
nonpositivism: Kaczynski was a murderer, no doubt about it, but not insane - as Lawyer Michael Mello makes clear in his book The USA vs. Theodoro Kaczynski. Even Mello found some of his historical analysis brilliant and very compelling. Keep this in mind and refer to in the future, please.
juttafranz: Well, Scott, what do you think? Are there any powerful dormant forces in history, in the current USA, that could stop this Bush megalomania, and with that the "Apocalypse Now"?
jutta_schmitt2002: My questions are certainly centered around the emancipation issue, Franz, as you may have noticed. Can we determine, and HOW can we determine, traces of emancipation in history, and not only with regard to "the past", but also with regard to "the present" and "the future", beyond time and space, that is, transhistorically yet "applied" to an environment where time and space still persists.
juttafranz: Yes, Jutta, I remember our transhistoric discussion, that could throw light on this check-mate, on this global situation.
nonpositivism: Franz, in reply: I think if there's any hope it may lie in what Morris Berman (remember his book The Twilight of American Culture which framed one of the first Pand. Conferences which I introduced and participated in) pointed to: Chaos or Systems Theory. Would you like me to explain further?
jutta_schmitt2002: Scott, we will certainly take a look at the site you provided, and try to consider the analysis given there in future thought exchanges.
nonpositivism: [Jutta, thank you]
juttafranz: In "1984", Winston said, still using
a class analysis, still having
a class social consciousness: "Hope lies in the
proles." Scott, in this sense,
where do you see hope?
jutta_schmitt2002: Scott, I remember those conferences. However if you like, you can certainly resume some central aspects of Berman to highlight some points of our discussion and questions here.
juttafranz: In the intelligentsia, Scott? In those
that write marvellous
hope-full" books?
juttafranz: Jutta, coming back to what you introduced
before.
juttafranz: Looking at the world situation and
problem in a zigzag, tictac
fashion, of course, there is no sign of "hope",
of human emancipation
anywhere, anytime.
juttafranz: Then, it's really true: Apocalypse
Now!
nonpositivism: Probably not. Hope lies more in the educated middle classes - educated enough about Global Warming, Ecodestruction, Population problems, concerned for the well-being of their children - who are able to somehow preserve the best of our culture and initiate currents of intellect and thought and change which can significantly affect the governing elites. This, coupled with some agitation "from below" - militants and nations in 3rd. world who successfully disrupt the global politics and economy with strikes, boycotts, massive protest etc. It will have to be international in scope. That + middle class and upper class influence might produce the right changes - or it could produce a very punitive counterreaction which perpetuates its will by force if necessary. This is less likely if..........
jutta_schmitt2002: Franz, is there necessarily
only ONE form of "appearance" of emancipation or emancipatory traits in
transhistory? Is there necessarily only ONE emancipatory tendency which
will come to be "reality", once all the conditions for its manifestation
are given? Would, as Iris probably would formulate it, the most probably
coming "mode of creation" "contain" emancipatory tendencies, or would it
contain them "twisted" - and would they still be emancipatory then?
jutta_schmitt2002: Most interesting, Scott. Please
proceed.
juttafranz: Well, zigzag and tictac logically
leads to Armageddon, Apocalypse,
to Peace, World Peace, to Death. In them, something
is born, grows, lives, and
then dies. Here Death is Apocalypse! So, it's
useless to discuss in normal spatial-temporal paradigms and parameters
anything "hopeful", unless Hope is
a synonym for Death.
nonpositivism: some of the elites - like Gorbachev - are already partially committed to new paradigms such as articulated in the recent Earth Charter. Getting some equivalent real powers-that-be in the USA to mirror this position and develop it further will be crucial. Elites in China, India and Western Europe will also be important. With some pockets of support there, the elite powers would have to perpetuate the existing inequity and crush the forces of progressive change through brutal civil represssions and even civil wars *within their own societies*, which is much less likely.
juttafranz: This simply means that we need other postulates, parameters, paradigms, that are just as valid as any other.
jutta_schmitt2002: Let's suppose WE are, exist and transcend in an emancipatory way - "is this it", has the "emancipatiory experiment" been successfull? Would we have a "butterfly effect" on other emancipatory tendencies?
juttafranz: Now, if we transcend Big Bang and
Apocalypse, and consider none
of them, then the world looks different, in fact,
is trifferently "hopeful", is
historic, emancipatory.
nonpositivism: Jutta, indeed you are telepathic. You're converging on Berman here. There are broader issues though of which you should be aware:
juttafranz: Death is when the Mind reaches its
Nadir, its Nowhere, when it
becomes universally limited. If we cannot transcend,
transthink, well, then
we have to be happy and hopeful with out lot,
with Globalization and Fascism,
and also bear the consequences: holocaust, genocide.
jutta_schmitt2002: You are picking up a timely scenario in your last remark, Scott - at least as far as Venezuela and probably the whole of Latin America is concerned. It seems that on the order of the "southern hemispheric day" is exactly the perpetuation of existing inequity through brutal civil repressions and very likely civil wars within the affected countries. - Nothing really "new", however. What could be "new" about it would probably be its ferociousness.
nonpositivism: 1. These transitions often occur much, much more slowly than the span of an individual human life; 2. Outcomes of the Butterfly Effect are mathematically, inherently unpredictable; 3. Berman himself placed some faith in the Monastic Option - in which we aggressively promote the Classics - best of our civilizations - in corridors which cannot be diluted by the Global Newspeak - and in some way hope that the knowledge in the future rekindles a Renaissance - they way the Monks of the Middle Ages with their Scholastic tradition (although not Methods) unwittingly preserved just enough for the Renaissance to flower once it was ready to re-interpret the old texts.
juttafranz: Jutta, what did I explain as the "hope"
for Venezuela, for Latin
America, in my previous class? Do you remember?
nonpositivism: [In case anyone is interested, I am saving this Conference in its entirety]
juttafranz: Just a tip, Jutta: Today is Yesterday's
Tomorrow!
juttafranz: The Present is the Past's Future.
juttafranz: Thanks, Scott.
nonpositivism: Yes, Franz: The Past is Prologue. (Often true, but not always)
juttafranz: Now, thinking on these parameters
the world looks completely
trifferent, Jutta.
jutta_schmitt2002: Franz - your explanation, what "hope" Venezuela and Latin America have in this global scenario, was related to the "multi-transhistoric tendenciousness" of the processes we live here (in our case study, the Bolivarian Revolution), where past, present and future "converge" and permit a "qualitative jump" towards something really new. - Scott, thanks for saving.
juttafranz: The Dialogue is the Prologue of the Epilogue, Scott.
nonpositivism: Jutta, yes just keep in mind that "pragmatists" from
Berman to Kaczynski agree that these Jumps will not happen for some time.
In fact, it's likely that the next 100 years will see a strengthening in
American hegemony, the Corporatized Global Economy, perhaps the rise of
Asia, etc. It may be several centuries before changes anything remotely
like what you would prefer begin to be realized. And on a global scale
there may be no way of accelerating it.
nonpositivism: Which does not mean that you can do good things in Venezuela
and other pockets, but these are very very small eddies facing a Huge Tidal
Onslaught from the opposite direction.
juttafranz: Scott, how come that a small island
became a world power? Could
it be that Cuba will soon rule the galactic waves?
jutta_schmitt2002: (Scott, your Berman related explanation of how major socio-historic transitions usually occur over a long period of time reminds me of the repolarization of the earth's magnetic field we are beginning to experience. This kind of geohistorical "transitions" usually take between 500.000 and 700.000 years. Let's "hope" the sociohistorical ones speed up a little in comparison! )
nonpositivism: correction: Which does not mean that you cannot or should
not do good things in Venezuela and other pockets right now, but these
are very very small eddies facing a Huge Tidal Onslaught from the opposite
direction.
nonpositivism: Franz, if the UK could do it, why not Cuba? Check back
with us in 300 years.
nonpositivism: Jutta, agreed. 1,000,000 years is a bit long to wait!
juttafranz: Scott, there are more things on Earth
and in the Heavens than a
straight past-present-future sojourn through
the formal-logical wilderness of "history"!
nonpositivism: This is a very, very important point to come back to:
One has to be careful to allow for a Quality Dynamic here. We cannot be
certain what the long-term or even short-term impact of our efforts may
be, but we must continue to try. Nothing is gained by passive, overly deterministic
or fatalistic attitudes.
nonpositivism: Fortunately there's plenty of built-in optimism in Humanity.
If the Human race were truly overly fatalistic, it would have annihilated
itself already.
jutta_schmitt2002: Scott, as long as we do, think and excel all of, by and for ourselves we are like the coming of spring, that cannot be stopped even if they kill all the flowers!
juttafranz: "US"? You mean that small northern
part of Cuba? Scott, you are
a true American, even then, in 300 years, America
will still rule, rule the
galactic winds! That's what I call a true American
patriot!!
nonpositivism: Jutta, that was very inspirational poetry - which does communicate some basic inalienable truths!
jutta_schmitt2002: Thanks, Scott.
nonpositivism: Franz, 300 years from now...assuming we still have some human civilizations, some international protocols, trade, governance and so forth, it's entirely possible that Cuba - the Island as an integrated political whole with some form of govt. we can't even imagine today, could become the Center of things the way NYC is today. Surely it's conceivable. That's what I meant, if you needed clarification.
juttafranz: Don't worry, Jutta, full many a flower
is born to blush unseen, and
to disseminate its sweetness on the transhistoric,
fragrant, spheric winds of emancipation.
nonpositivism: Franz, you and Jutta definitely make a poetic couple.
nonpositivism: There's a real need for Political Poetry, emotional
appeal. It's a lost art, particularly in the Technical North with its emphasis
on the Written word.
jutta_schmitt2002: On "quality dynamics" - we have precisely made the experience over the last ten years, that the more you do, think and excel all of, by and for yourself you attract exactly those, who do likewise or are "in orbit", so to speak. In contrast, you will achieve the very contrary when you try to "recruit" people.
juttafranz: Scott, how will any "Cuba" survive
in full scale Globalization and Galactization ? -- it might not even survive
as Pluto's Kennel for Big Brother's
pet, not even as a determinist basket for the
Great Maffia's White Schroedinger Cat!
jutta_schmitt2002: So there is an emancipatory
quality dynamics of auto-attraction and ingnition of fellow-orbiters.
jutta_schmitt2002: Franz, these unseen flowers
may well be the most beautiful ones ever unseen!
juttafranz: What kind of "orbiting", Jutta? Geo-,
helio-, black hole-orbiting?
juttafranz: Yes, Jutta, those are the Invisible,
Invincible, Invulnerable Thorn
Tree Yellow Flowers!
jutta_schmitt2002: Transorbiting, Franz.
juttafranz: Well, now we are speaking a transhistoric,
neither spatial nor
temporal, lingo: bingo! Jutta.
nonpositivism: Jutta, very, very well-spoken. Franz, don't be surprised if Cuba actually gets stronger and goes through some interesting transformations in the coming decades, especially after Castro is gone. The fact that it has stood up to America for 40 years - including 10 years without Soviet sponsorship - is incredible and has impressed even America's military and state dept. elites.
jutta_schmitt2002: Scott, I fear there may be no ears left to hear and no eyes left to read political poetry.
nonpositivism: Jutta, I doubt it. The audience will continue. Especially children, young people will remain very receptive.
juttafranz: Don't get mixed up, Scott! Castro is the personification of another sphere; without Castro (or Venezuela without Chavez), Cuba may return to the favoured brothels of the upper thousand of the United States. Look what is happening in Ho Chi Minh's Vietnam, in Tito's Yugoslavia, not even to mention Lenin's and Trotsky's Soviet Union!
jutta_schmitt2002: The progressive flattening of people's brains and senses in the course of the daily dose of information warfare and virtual reality keep pushing alienation to a point of no return. - Scott, maybe the ever fewer "lagoon children" have a chance.
nonpositivism: Jutta, in addition to literacy considerations perhaps those that are most receptive are the ones who are most in touch with nature - rural or suburban which still has some forests and animals, rivers, etc. This is crucial for poetic sensibility.
juttafranz: Well, modern, official information
alias newspeak, in essence, has
a Big Lie of a Big Brother in its bellicose core.
jutta_schmitt2002: Scott and Franz, most unfortunately I will have to leave the conference in a few minutes. However, I hereby confirm my regular Wednesday's assistance, at least for the first hour of the chat. Please let us determine with sufficient time ahead what topic we will discuss next time. - Fully agreed to your observation on nearness to nature as a critical factor for inspiration, poetic and philosophic sensibility.
juttafranz: I explained above how this Big Lie
needs a galaxy of smaller lies,
and these again form the quintessence of education,
socialization, mind and
thought control, of ignorance that rains blissfully
from the caustic, red skies.
juttafranz: The above is "information", Jutta.
FADING OUT .....
nonpositivism: Thanks Jutta, I understand. It's been a pleasure to have your participation today!
juttafranz: Scott, I'll have to attend to some things too.
jutta_schmitt2002: Scott? You just logged in. Did you get logged off?
juttafranz: It was a short, quick, but heavily laden chat.
nonpositivism: No, absolutely not. I am here - eternal and always.
jutta_schmitt2002: Or do you think twice is better than one?
juttafranz: Thanks for coming, to keep up our
emancipatory "tradition".
juttafranz: I'll forward the chat to the crew
just now!
nonpositivism: Maybe we can be poetic next time, focus on political poetry and its continuing transhistoric significance.
jutta_schmitt2002: This time restriction of mine is a temporary one - I may be fully participating in two weeks again.
nonpositivism: Jutta, how is your brother doing?
juttafranz: Yes, if poetry is the food of love,
then, Scott, play on -- let the blues
fill the air!
nonpositivism: If we had audio Chat I could conceivably broadcast some of my music to y'all.
jutta_schmitt2002: He has recovered a great lot. However, he still has to stay under observation, perhaps for another week. But I really see him almost back to normal.
nonpositivism: That is great news. OK, I guess we need to wrap things up. See you all next time!
jutta_schmitt2002: Scott - didn't you send Franz an audio file these days or weeks? Franz, I never got to hear it.
nonpositivism: Jutta, I don't think so re: audio file. The stuff I have is to big even for Yahoo IM to easily receive. Iris once tried and it was way too slow.
jutta_schmitt2002: Scott, feel free to send us samples of your jazzmastering whenever you want. I used to be a great fan of Jazz.
juttafranz: Listening to your erternal Jazz -- Master, play on!
jutta_schmitt2002: What about a fragment?!
jutta_schmitt2002: Just a small sequence, come on!
nonpositivism: That is certainly possible in the future, once we get digital editors, etc. I will keep you posted on that for sure.
jutta_schmitt2002: Excellent.
juttafranz: OK, Scott, Bye!
juttafranz: Bye!
jutta_schmitt2002: Alright friends, time to go. It's been a pleasure. Bye for now and take care.
nonpositivism: OK, I must retreat to Business, Music, Software and Family - not necessarily in that order! Until next time.............A L O H A !
Yahoo! Messenger: nonpositivism has left the conference.