pandemonium
TRIALOGICS
Our Wednesday International Yahoo Chat
(Every Week, Thursday afternoon, on Yahoo,
starting at 2.00 PM, New York, at 2.00 PM. Venezuelan Time, at 8.00 PM, German Time.)
Jutta (Merida, Venezuela)
Franz (Merida, Venezuela)
Carl (Teaneck, USA)
Stella (Mainz, Germany)
EDUCATION, STUDENTS, UNIVERSITY --
What a Brain-Washing, Brain-Laundering Enterprise!12th June, 2002
PLEASE NOTE:
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Greetings, it would take hours and hours to edit this
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the manuscript to avoid any possible errors that may
cause misunderstanding. Chats, by their very nature,
are not perfect scientifictreatises.)
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Yahoo! Messenger: You are now logged into
voice conference - juttafranz-2450.
Yahoo! Messenger: carlzim has joined the conference.
SAYING: HI!
juttafranz: Hi! Everybody, a pleasure to read
you all!
jutta_schmitt2002: Hello Carl.
missnaranjahit: Hi all, Franz, Jutta, Carl!
jutta_schmitt2002: Hi Franz, Hi Stella, Hi
Carl. Nice to see you all.
carlzim: Hi Franz, Jutta, Stella.
jutta_schmitt2002: Franz, will Josué
attend today's chat?
juttafranz: He promised me that he would try,
if he finds a computer.
jutta_schmitt2002: Okay. I suggest that we
start anyway. Can you please introduce today's chat, Franz?
juttafranz: At the university, the students
are only allowed to use the few existing computers, for just 30 minutes
per person.
jutta_schmitt2002: Carl, can you go blue and
bold, please?
carlzim: Please proceed, Jutta.
jutta_schmitt2002: Ah, thanks Carl.
juttafranz: The poor guy, he himself, of course,
could not afford a computer at all.
jutta_schmitt2002: Franz will introduce the
chat, Carl, and then we will have our usual debate. Franz, please proceed.
Thanks.
juttafranz: OK, I'll begin with a very short
introduction.
juttafranz: Are you all ready?
jutta_schmitt2002: Yes.
missnaranjahit: Yes.
jutta_schmitt2002: Standing by for your introduction.
THE BRIEF INTRODUCTION
juttafranz: Today our topic is: EDUCATION, STUDENTS, UNIVERSITY.
jutta_schmitt2002: Timely topic, Franz.
carlzim: Excellent topic, Franz.
juttafranz:
However, to give the debate sufficient time for development, I will just post important general remarks about education that I made in various documents over the last few days.
jutta_schmitt2002: That is fine with us, Franz. Go ahead.
juttafranz: Directly, concerning Students and university, we will discuss thereafter freely.
missnaranjahit: Ok Franz.
jutta_schmitt2002: Ok.
juttafranz: In this case, Stella is the expert,
experiencing it in flesh, blood and brain.
juttafranz: Unfortunately, as we said before,
we have not been educated to act a n d think scientifically a n d philosophically,
rather we were spoon-fed with a unilalteral, boring, strenuous, receptive,
passive "either-or" universal porridge.
missnaranjahit: well.... We will see.
jutta_schmitt2002: Stella - looking forward to your observations from daily university experience or rather "torture" ...
juttafranz:
The result is that things so intrinsically
easy and human as thought, theory and philosophy are being hated by the
absolute majority of humanity, who just wish to be eternally concrete,
to be absolutely concreticized.
carlzim: Ossified.
juttafranz:
Because of this, like in many things on earth,
there is no easy road to thinking and thought. Nonetheless, these "notes"
are written for and dedicated to those of us, who still want to learn to
act a n d to think in emancipatory ways.
jutta_schmitt2002: - Ossified is the term, Carl, exactly!
juttafranz: And now: Why do some have severe
difficulties to follow our expositions at this
level a n d degree of scientific a n d philosophic
reflections? The answer is very simple. Urgently all of us need thinking
and thought exercises and training. Most of us are just used to either-or,
-- either right or wrong, either agreement or disagreement, either good
or bad -- passive, receptive, master-slave mental attitudes or mentalities.
juttafranz:
The moment that we have to relate, to inter-relate,
more than two excluding, exclusive entities, the headaches begin. To remedy
this fatal ontic situation, these brief approximations to acting a n d
thinking AND excelling are written.
juttafranz: That was my brief introduction, now you all could comment, please!
carlzim: In USA, the new "Gestapo" may control education system.
carlzim: From a German contact on a forum:
"What is becoming apparent is (USA has) a
national police system in the making with the FBI. I am not privy to what
the checks and balances are, but, I would very seriously consider the power
of your representatives are in representing your voice.
carlzim:
What I am saying is our problems with National
Socialism in Germany in 1930's was brought about with less than this that
you are experiencing in USA today."
carlzim: Comment, please.
jutta_schmitt2002: Short and concise, Franz.
Thanks. ---- The first thought that comes to me with regard to education,
is, that it has a function in society - it has to inculcate all the "values"
and norms that make society run smoothly on its basic pillars: economic
exploitation, political oppression, social
discrimination and human alienation. No values can be possibly introduced,
that would question the system as such. - Carl, how do students in the
USA today perceive what you have just outlined - the decline of the so
called "civil
liberties" and the establishment of a GESTAPO-
like security apparatus in the USA?
juttafranz: Carl, who or what, in any case, in the past, in the present, and in future, control education, in whose interests, and what is the function of education, students and universities? Of course, Stella and Jutta you are also free to answer.
carlzim: The ruling class controls education.
juttafranz: Then, Carl, the US ruling class, for some reason or the other, is now more strictly than ever, controlling education. Why?
jutta_schmitt2002: What has been profiling
itself slowly but surely in the USA since September 11th is the new Police
State, State Terrorism. - Carl, is there any public debate on the erosion
of civil liberties and the establishment of a "Super Security Agency" in
the
USA? Is debate allowed on campuses? Or are
students as well as professors compelled to tune into the "mainstream opinion"
anyway?
jutta_schmitt2002: Would you find, today, any significant opposition to the current course of domestic and foreign policies of the Bush government? What happens to those (probably a handful), who DO publicly speak out?
carlzim: There is limited debate in the conventional media.
juttafranz: Jutta, and before September 11, was education ever free, for example in the very USA or Germany? Why were there academic "Berufsverbote" (not appointing leftist professors) in the 60's and 70's? And those laws are still valid all over, in Britain, Germany and the USA, where Un-American education is certainly not loved.
carlzim: From a forum:
"Today, for the first time, the U.S. Gov't asserted its right to deprive a U.S. Citizen, detained on American soil, of all constitutional rights. Why? Because this person was--in the view of the Executive Branch (i.e. the U.S. President, and those who serve under the Office)--an unlawful combatant.
According to Reuters, that person was: Abdullah al Muhajir, a U.S. citizen of Puerto Rican descent born in New York as Jose Padilla.
jutta_schmitt2002: I could imagine, that what they call "political correctness" has become a real straight jacket, especially at university, where - at least one should suppose so - the few dissenting opinions are located. I understand the Washington Post run a semi-critical article with regard to the latest developments on the "office for homeland security" front.
carlzim: What the government asserts is that this American citizen was involved in a bomb plot against the U.S., and therefore his status is that of an unlawful combatant. According to Reuters: Al Muhajir is now held by the Defense Department as an 'enemy combatant,' which under the rules of war allows him to be questioned without the usual protections of the judicial system, such as having a lawyer present.
carlzim: Indeed, unlawful [enemy] combatants
have no constitutional liberties whatsoever. They can't even assert the
right not to be tortured. With the attachment of a label (based only on
the word of the enforcement authorities), an American citizen's status
can become
less than that of a stray dog. (Dogs must
be treated humanely under American law).
juttafranz: If this is true: "Today, for the first time, the U.S. Gov't asserted its right to deprive a U.S. Citizen, detained on American soil, of all constitutional rights. Why? Because this person was--in the view of the Executive Branch (i.e. the U.S. President, and those who serve under the Office)--an unlawful combatant", then Bye! Bye! American Democracy! Hello, Police State, Hitlerian Nazism!!
carlzim: Nor has the U.S. government specified any particular avenue of judicial review. What this suggests is that *ANY* American citizen can be stripped of his/her constitutional rights summarily, merely because the law enforcement authorities pin the label of unlawful [enemy] combatant upon the individual-in-Q. No Federal Judge has the power to intervene ... the determination of status is entirely up to the Executive branch of government.
carlzim:
As an American citizen, I'm shocked and appalled
that our constitutional liberties can be eviscerated so easily by a huge
exception to the American Bill of Rights ... one that was
never envisioned by the Founders of America.
Indeed this hole in the Constitution is large enough to drive a King through
(speaking of Kings, think: George V). Did the Founders of the U.S. really
wish us to bring back the Monarchy because of terrorism? I think not.
jutta_schmitt2002: Franz, d'accord. I remember the unfamous Berufsverbote in Germany in the wake of the students movement, and, therefore, no - education was never independent, the moment it acquires, for some historical reason, a critical touch that threatens the continuity of the system, it would not fulfill its function anymore. - Carl, this is horrifying - true police state like features!!!
carlzim: Worse, few if any Americans have been willing to think hard and long about the implications of this policy. When Daniel Ellsberg (sp?) released the Pentagon Papers (detailing U.S. involvement in the Vietnam war), would (former U.S. President) Nixon have shrunk from incarcerating Ellsberg indefinitely as an unlawful combatant? Would J. Edger Hoover have relished the idea of jailing Martin Luther King in this fashion, based on rumors that he was a communist?
missnaranjahit: My question is, when we say, that you cannot convince anybody of certain things, some one is only able to understand certain things, when (s)he is already "on the track" - why does it function to convince people with "mainstream"-stuff but not any other things which go beyond that?
juttafranz: So, Carl, all that about "unlawful enemy" was already in the US democratic constitution and laws, before Sept. 11 -- then, this must have been a shadow-democracy, ipse facto, long ago already, before bin Laden, must have been a potential police state.
carlzim: Yes, Franz.
carlzim: I'm aware that this in an international
forum, and that there are many differences of opinion that could be had
about the fairness of U.S. foreign policy over the years. What shocks me
the most, is that Osama Bin Laden's wildest dreams have begun to arrive
at fruition: the U.S. is becoming a police state, one inclined to strip
its own citizens of the most
basic rights ... all at the drop of a hat
or the hint of an allegation.
juttafranz: Well, in that case, I know who blew the Twin Towers to blazes!
jutta_schmitt2002: Stella - excellent question! .. Let me try to formulate an answer to that one. ...
juttafranz: Generally, rightists, Nazis, Fascists, terrorists, do things like that.
carlzim: Surely the U.S. government is serving
Al Queda's cause by being so willing to shred the U.S. Constitution. And
the Framers of the latter may be rolling over in their
graves as a result. The consequences for America,
as well as the world, cannot be good."
missnaranjahit: And another question: when we say, that formal logics and all topics which are connected with this problem is THE FIRST STEP - so I have to conclude, that "all people" (sorry for this generalization) are on the track, and we should have no problem whatsoever.
carlzim: Please continue to comment, Folks .
missnaranjahit: reading back.....
jutta_schmitt2002: Stella, I would say, that you do not have to convince a person with mainstream ideas, because this is exactly what everybody gets into their heads from the cradle on: mainstream ideas, mainstream behaviour patterns, mainstream "reasoning". This is the very basis for a "functioning" society - more precisely formulated, for the continuity of profit production. No "convincing" needed, Stella - the system has an advantage here: All individuals are but a specific expression of the overall reigning, system-affirming "mainstream ideas".
jutta_schmitt2002: Carl, let me briefly read back.
juttafranz: Stella, what was the first question?
missnaranjahit: First question Franz:
missnaranjahit: My question was, when we say,
that you cannot convince anybody of certain things, some one is only able
to understand certain things, when (s)he is already "on the track" - why
does it function to convince people with "mainstream"-stuff but not any
other things which go beyond that?
juttafranz: OK, before, it did not arrive!
carlzim: Ok, Jutta.
missnaranjahit: But Jutta, there is much need of convincing I would say. Education IS convincing someone as I see it.
jutta_schmitt2002: For Carl: Carl, the BIG
QUESTION here is, whether all you described above is not, in fact, a very
welcome tool in the hands of the ruling political elite in order to suppress
probable, future social unrest in the USA itself. What better thing could
have
happened in order to confront the current,
global economic crisis than having a pretext (Osama bin Laden / Al Quaeda)
to boost up a war economy and wage an endless war on the international
front, whilst simultaneously waging war on the domestic front with a magnificent
apparatus to intimidate and suppress any social critique and unrest, present
and to come?!
juttafranz: Stella, a most interesting question!
Why can you convert millions to Christianity and very few to Marxism, or
even just emancipation? Well, the answer lies precisely in education, in
formal-logics, in ideology, in thought and mind control. The young minds
are trained to be only receptive to certain
things, to formal-logical, either-or data, and nothing else, no dialectics,
no dialogics. In fact, if these things approximate them, as programmed,
automatically, their neurones fuse, they get headaches, they switch off.
carlzim: Education is convincing some people that if they conform, they'll get a high paying job after graduation.
juttafranz: Agreed, Carl.
carlzim: Jutta, Al Qaeda invests in global war economy.
juttafranz: Stella, when "all people are on the track", why should we have no problem? I did not quite understand your question or remark. Kindly explain.
jutta_schmitt2002: Education - as it starts from the cradle - is not that much about convincing, but "building the character", "shaping the sculpture", "bending the young tree" from scratch, so to speak. As there is not much "independent substance" in a young child or person to counter these educational efforts in the first place, I would not describe them in terms of a "convincing effort", but rather of laying the very foundations, shaping the very person.
carlzim: "First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me."
Pastor Martin Niemöller
juttafranz: Jutta, repeating Scott's question of last time, why did you, how did you, Stella, Iris, Scott and Carl, escape this bending of the young tree, this educational sardines tin, this shaping and sculpturing of your minds, this education for barbarism?
jutta_schmitt2002: Carl, these are certainly
the signs of our times - Al Quaeda may invest in global war economy, but
they do not necessarily run a State and are not precisely the political
expression of mighty economic interests that count up for 48 percent of
the
globe's production.
jutta_schmitt2002: Carl, very true and chilling, your poem!
juttafranz: Stella, do you have an idea how you escaped, tell us about that Houdini-Trick, about that salto mortale out of family, mass media, school and university education.
juttafranz: Why do billions not succeed, Carl & Jutta?
carlzim: Franz, we were exposed to free thinkers at home in early childhood.
missnaranjahit: Franz, I draw back my second question, just forget it for now.
jutta_schmitt2002: Franz, because we felt that our most formidable years of childhood and youth had been stolen away from us by the educational system, which confined us to 10 years in jailhouse!
carlzim: Billions brainwashed, Franz.
juttafranz: After all, we also had our fair share of contemporary education, mind and thought control, brain-laundering, of lies, and more lies .... how, why, and when did we escape??
missnaranjahit: *reading back*
juttafranz: Carl, do we have special immune brains, or do we have something else, excluding what is usually understood by having a mind, to make up a mind?
juttafranz: What happens to a being, to a human
being, when his thinking and thought, his existence is destroyed? Is there
a law in the democratic USA that forbids this? Or does the constitution
just say free "education" for all, no matter what it really is? And, imagine
how much one pays for that "education"!
jutta_schmitt2002: We held our childhood fantasies and our youthful daydreams against it, our own colours in which we painted the world as WE saw it. We held the stars and the skies and the moons and the trees and the doves and the deer and the ants and each and every living creature against it, the flowers, the cornfields, the forests, Franz.
juttafranz: Mmmmmm... the Elvis Presley Anti-Jailhouse Rock!! Now, I know why in Cape Town, instead of studying, I went from one party to the other, and became the "King of Rock" -- that surely saved me. ...
jutta_schmitt2002: We sang our own songs, we
invented our own games, we played by our own rules, spoke our own language,
thought our own thoughts, dreamt our own dreams.
jutta_schmitt2002: Quite an arsenal, don't
you think ?
carlzim: Guys, for my birthday I received
Microsoft Flight Simulator (FS) 2002.. It's a more advanced version than
that supposedly used to train the 9/11 hijackers at flying schools in USA.
To install & run it. I used approx 2-1/2 GB hard drive space and added
more RAM
totaling 384 MB RAM. It's fun, but can't train
anyone to fly a plane. The FS 9/11 terrorist training story is bullscheisse.
juttafranz: Stella, don't rock in your Mallorca Tourist Chair, get up, let's rock the educational vampires away!
jutta_schmitt2002: Carl - hopefully you will acquire your license soon, and fly over to visit us here in Mérida!
carlzim: Thank you, Jutta.
jutta_schmitt2002: I agree, there is much more to flying than simply training in the simulator. You need real-time lessons, too (unless you don't really care much about starting and landing )
missnaranjahit: [Sorry, Iris called me. Greetings from her to you all!]
carlzim: Jutta, the FS can't train you to start the plane.
carlzim: Greetings to Iris.
jutta_schmitt2002: Carl, the poem you cited above - do you think this expresses the concerns of most Americans today, or is it just a small minority, that can already see the fascist threat arising? - Thanks, Stella.
missnaranjahit: I'll tell her Carl.
carlzim: Thanks, Stella .
jutta_schmitt2002: Is the average American citizen aware of the fact, that (s)he is no longer citizen with rights in her/his country, but rather a "prisoner on demand"?
carlzim: A small minority, Jutta .
carlzim: "Prisoner on demand". Good expression, Jutta.
jutta_schmitt2002: So, would you say, education and information in the USA have been effective as far as "keeping people ignorant" is concerned, Carl?
carlzim: Yes, Jutta. It pays to be ignorant.
jutta_schmitt2002: Thanks, Carl, it seems Scott's formula - "Ignorance is Strength" - comes to weigh in here, too.
juttafranz: Jutta, how many world citizens, including Americans, know what is fascism, global fascism? If they don't, then they will find themselves in the situation of your grandparents who saw nothing, heard nothing, did not smell any burning human corpses. Or could it be that they really did not see anything, that they had and have no brains left to see anything at all anymore, not the bums, not the Nobel Peace Prize Winners?
carlzim: Yes, Jutta. However...
carlzim: Wharton Univ. offers an excellent
biweekly newsletter that provides
access to the thinking of some of the top
Ivy League minds about business. Somewhat unconventional. After chat --
Free, but requires registration at:
http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/sign_up.cfm
juttafranz: Yes, Jutta, Technology, Progress and Education produce what I had called homo eviternal ignoramus!
jutta_schmitt2002: It always seemed the most
amazing thing to me, how, in Nazi Germany, the average citizen supposedly
did not see and hear anything with regard to the ongoing Holocaust. These
very same, 24 hours a day - vigilant eyes, that would study each and
every movement of their neighbours and report
them to the police if deemed suspicious, did not see a thing! Their brains
had been thoroughly washed and laundered indeed.
jutta_schmitt2002: - Tanks for the url, Carl. -
carlzim: Good point, Jutta. Same in USA during McCarthy era in 1950's .
jutta_schmitt2002: Do you think this phenomenon will repeat itself in history, Carl? Do you think thousands, millions will be slaughtered again without anybody taking notice?
juttafranz: Yes, Jutta, truly they cannot see anything beyond formal logics, beyond ideology; this answers Stella's question, why, with very few exceptions, you cannot "conscientize", not emancipate anybody, older than 10-16 years.
juttafranz: Ten millions and millions of US
citizens will never ever see the Police State, that you and Carl explained
before. What happens to them, they do not see as fascism, they see it as
a necessary small "evil" to stop Marxists, Arabs, terrorists, communists
and
"niggers".
carlzim: Moving on to Russia ... ( http://www.russiajournal.com/printer/weekly6253.html
[THE RUSSIA JOURNAL], Published Every Week
in Moscow Since 1998 JUNE 07-13, 2002 Vol.5, No.21 (164) The fate of collective
farming in Russia By JOE ADAMOV / Moscow Mailbag :)
carlzim: Why does the Communist Party today get such support? I really can't understand people glorifying communist leaders. - Zakluna Svetkovich, Smederovo, Serbia.
carlzim: The support for the Communist Party
in the Duma has dwindled. Today it
doesn't enjoy the majority. Recently, it lost
all its leading posts as heads of parliamentary committees. But I will
admit a very large percentage of the population supports the Communists,
yearns for the old system and attends demonstrations with portraits of
Lenin and Stalin. They are mostly old people. Why? Because, and this is
a fact, their standards of living are way below those of the Soviet days
- several times lower. An estimated 40 million
people live below the poverty line. Those
are official figures. But we are in a transitional period, and things are
bound to change because we are on the right economic and political road.
- What has become of Russian collective farms? - Christopher Anthony,
California, U.S
jutta_schmitt2002: Franz, I think our comments
and question here also indicate, that it is the brain in the first place,
that sees .... the
FOUR fingers on Winston's hand ....!
carlzim: During the Soviet times, a collective farm was a way of life. Three generations of our people went through it all. After the breakup of the Soviet Union, they became known as closed-stock companies. They assumed no end of names, but whatever they called themselves, they were all collective farms, and they produced 46 percent of our agricultural output. Private farmers produced only 2-3 percent. The bulk of the produce came from private plots of land. Most collective farmers had these private plots, as did many town dwellers. Just recently, our parliament passed a law allowing the sale and buying of land for agricultural purposes. This, no doubt, was a step forward.
carlzim: So the Russians invented Capitalism (LOL).
jutta_schmitt2002: Carl, with 40 million people below the poverty line - what will be left of the Russian people's thinking capabilities? What about the educational system in Russia?
carlzim: In Russia, thinking capabilities=Vodka. Education for select few is OK, for masses, it's substandard.
jutta_schmitt2002: Carl, hahaha :) "In Russia, thinking capabilities=Vodka" ... okay, applies to some small villages here in Venezuela, too!
juttafranz: What is tragic, is that we see "education" now in danger; the truth is, this is what education, studies and universities were all about, across the millennia. - Or, are we in a similar situation, like the Germans who saw no holocaust, with reference to universal education across the past millennia, and those to come?
juttafranz: Or, worse even, are we in the situation
of the Polynesians who could not see Captain James Cook's huge ship, because
our mental range can only identify simple, primitive canoes? Thus, we cannot
grasp European Space Colonization in Africa, Asia or
America. hence, for us, like them, these things
do not exist, America is not a modern, fascist, police State!!
Yahoo! Messenger: carlzim has left the conference.
juttafranz: Stella, do you now see the problems of convincing anybody of anything -- do you see, that our conception of education is on a global scale, completely our of order, out of the New World Order.
missnaranjahit: Sure Franz, no problem with that.
Yahoo! Messenger: carlzim has joined the conference.
missnaranjahit: Welcome back Carl.
carlzim: Thanks, Jutta, Franz, Stella.
jutta_schmitt2002: Carl: One of my former, Eastern German philosophy professors, who had come to Frankfurt University after the Fall of the Berlin Wall had told us students, that he had barely begun to understand, what capitalism really was about, only AFTER the Berlin Wall had come down. He said all his own ML (Marxism/Leninism) education and formation had not succeeded to let him understand, what he had come to understand about capitalism after the collapse of the Soviet Union.
juttafranz: Carl, for you: Stella, do you now see the problems of convincing anybody of anything -- do you see, that our conception of education is on a global scale, completely our of order, out of the New World Order.
carlzim: Interesting, Franz&Jutta. Convincing=non-convincing .
juttafranz: Carl & Jutta, like pills today, or other drugs, foot-ball, music, lottery, vodka, miche, all were invented and used by capitalism and imperialism to control the minds and bodies of the enslaved; millions of slaves and millions of acres of land in Africa and America were exchanged for alcohol, thus, the very minds were deteroriated, and as a result, inter alia, finally, we have the current mentally deranged "wretched of the earth".
jutta_schmitt2002: So, if - in Russia, amongst those below the poverty line - , and in other countries of the world, where millions are living in miserable conditions or no life-sustainable conditions at all, Carl's formula applies, and thinking capabilities equal Vodka input, what is left for those, who would have an interest in penetrating today's myths about the wonderful new world order and its wonderful war against terrorism, with its wonderful future prospects about "food and health and welfare for all"? If vodka is the thinking equivalent of the poor masses, is CNN the middle-classes' counterpart?
juttafranz: How are you going to convince a millennia-old, boozed, drunken mob about anything, how will you train them to think? This is the Mental Holocaust of Feudalism, Capitalism, Globalization, for which there are no constitutions, laws, democracy, about which no cock crows thrice! Of course, saying this, I will immediately be denounced as sowing fascist diatribes!
jutta_schmitt2002: That's the question, indeed, Franz.
jutta_schmitt2002: Worse even, why should they be "convinced" about anything at all, then? Why try to convince a stone, that it could be .... water, if it prefers to remain a stone, ready to be used to be thrown at somebodies head, ready to be used as a construction (or destruction) material? Why convince today's cannon-fodder, that they are (or should be) citizens and have (or should have) civil rights in the USA (or elsewhere)?
juttafranz: Yes, Jutta, they gave nobody --
less to the revolutionaries -- any social order to liberate them, on the
contrary, they betray anybody or abuse anybody, that is so stupid as to
sacrifice her/his life for them -- they even nailed Jesus Christ to a cross
for such
idiocy, delivered Che to the CIA. Anything
that looks like a Saviour, to be followed, used, crucified, they will follow,
like sheep, in follow-my-leader style, will convince them.
jutta_schmitt2002: Now thank God Franz, that we're not Jesus! )))))))
carlzim: More from Adamov...
carlzim: There have been open anti-Semitic
outpourings at large meetings by General
Albert Makashov, who was a member of parliament.
This was shown on television. We have a small fascist party whose ideology
is obvious. An organization called Permit is of the same hue. At one time,
anti-Semitism was an official Soviet policy. Today, it exists on the, shall
we say, home level. Lately, the so-called skinheads have become active,
with their hate directed not only against the Jews, but against all non-Russians,
especially Africans.
I've been called Jewish on several occasions.
Just the other day, an educated woman here at the Voice of Russia, foaming
at the mouth, said: "Oh, come on, you know you are half-Jewish!" Dopey
fanatics, that is all I can say.
juttafranz: It's not really their fault, for that they were educated. And education had a zillion percent success. This is the cardinal, capital crime against humanity. The slave, slave-master mentality is divinely perfect, today, more than ever.
jutta_schmitt2002: Carl, once again: the signs of our times - globofascism. Scapegoats are needed everywhere, to distract from the real problems, that have the system in agony, and that can only be "solved" at the expense of billions of obsolete, physical labour forces.
jutta_schmitt2002: Education as the eternal perpetuation of the slave-master mentality, Franz. -- The anti-dote: do, think and excel all of, by and for yourself.
carlzim: Good points, Jutta!
jutta_schmitt2002: Thanks, Carl - interesting points you raised, too.
juttafranz: And, look at the institutions of
higher learning, at the alma mater. You enter as a fresh(wo)man, a nerd,
continues as a sycomore, slowly your brains are being operated, removed,
by the time when you graduate, your backbone is broken or gone, and what
leaves, is just a slimy, messy, slippery,
vegetating "Encyclopaedia".
carlzim: Like the Encyclopedists of France? (LOL)
juttafranz: Yes, Carl!!!
carlzim: My late father's view of the French...
SAYING GOOD BYE
juttafranz: Stella, still around -- getting ready to go to university classes?
missnaranjahit: Around, but tired, folks I will sign off now.
jutta_schmitt2002: Stella, how late is it over there?
missnaranjahit: Not that late, 10.00pm
juttafranz: I agree to your anti-dote, Jutta. But, to take it, is a hell of an endeavour!!
jutta_schmitt2002: Late enough I guess. - You
must have had a strenuous day
.
missnaranjahit: So, send me the rest of the
file later, please.
jutta_schmitt2002: D'accord, Franz, and you are doing a formidable job in launching this endeavour in written form for our English - speaking fans.
carlzim: Thanks for joining, Stella. Gute Nacht!
jutta_schmitt2002: Okay Stella. Thanks and bye.
juttafranz: OK! Stella, Bye! Go to university! Beware of your brains, your spinal column!!
Yahoo! Messenger: missnaranjahit has left the conference.
jutta_schmitt2002: Don't let them mess with your education, Stella.
jutta_schmitt2002: Too late .....
juttafranz: IK, Jutta & Carl, we could stop here for today too.
carlzim: Good luck at university, Stella.
juttafranz: I enjoyed the fun tremendously!
jutta_schmitt2002: Carl and Franz, I suggest we come to an end for today. It's been a pleasure. Carl, thanks for all your mails and Information. Please keep them coming.
juttafranz: Greetings to Fran, Carl! I have the complete chat!
jutta_schmitt2002: Keep us posted on your flight training progress, Carl. Perhaps you will be flying your own Cessna, soon ?
carlzim: OK, Franz&Jutta: I also enjoyed this chat tremendously.
juttafranz: Cheers, Carl! Still supporting France? Denmark sent Chirac home. For them the game is over. Senegal, the ex-colony, taught France how to play the new game!
carlzim: My own Cessna on Chirac in Paris.
jutta_schmitt2002: Better even, hahahhaaaa ))) .
carlzim: Agreed on Senegal, Franz.
juttafranz: Poor Argentina is gone too.
jutta_schmitt2002: Send our best regards to Fran, Carl. Have a nice afternoon and bye for today.
jutta_schmitt2002: Don't cry for me, Argentina....
juttafranz: They really have "bad luck" on all scores!!!
juttafranz: Well, bye, folks!!!
jutta_schmitt2002: Bye Franz, bye Carl.
carlzim: Thanks. Fran sends her regards to all.
juttafranz: Bye!
juttafranz: Bye, Carl!!
jutta_schmitt2002: Thanks Carl. Bye then.
Yahoo! Messenger: jutta_schmitt2002 has left the conference.
carlzim: Bye, all .