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SAYING: HI!

carlzim: Hi, folks.
carlzim: Where's Jutta?
Yahoo! Messenger: jutta_schmitt2002 has joined the conference.
nonpositivism: Hola, todos!
jutta_schmitt2002: Hi Carl, Stella, Scott, Franz.
carlzim: Hi, Jutta
juttafranz: Hi! Everybody!!!
jutta_schmitt2002: Glad your computer is back in operation, Carl!
carlzim: Hi, all.
missnaranjahit: Hi all.
carlzim: Thanks, Jutta.
juttafranz: Carl, you are under the spotlight today!!
jutta_schmitt2002: Who will give the introduction today?
juttafranz: Folks, after Carl's introduction, I also have a short contribution to make
concerning information, disinformation, infowarfare, mass media and our
chronic ignorance about transhistoric reality. When you are ready, later I will
make my contribution.
jutta_schmitt2002: Fine with me Franz.
 

carlzim: Franz, thanks for the introduction. Folks: I'll now introduce today's chat topic:
"Marshall McLuhan's ideas. I asked all to start reading McLuhan's "Medium is the Massage*"
and various other books such as "Understanding Media" if you haven't already done
so. However, IMHO, the article I previously sent you will [...]
Now I'll continue with some excerpts from the article. Since this introduction is long,
please be patient. Thanks.

juttafranz: Begin, Carl!!!

missnaranjahit: Sorry guys, what exactely is the topic today? - ok I see.

carlzim: ________________________________
http://www.gadflyonline.com/06-03-02/book-mcluhan.html

From The Strange Afterlife of Marshall McLuhan
By Tim Cumming
--------------------------------------------------------

"The old politics had parties, policies, planks,
opposition. The new politics is concerned only with
images. The problem in the new politics is to find the
right image. Image hunting is the new thing, and
policies no longer matter because whether your electric
light is provided by Republicans or Democrats is rather ...

carlzim: ... unimportant compared to the service of light and power
and all the other kinds of services that go with our
cities. Service environment's the thing in place of
political parties."--Marshall McLuhan speaking to the students of Florida
State University in 1970.

carlzim: Mcluhan's concepts include the medium is the message and the
global village with emphasis on the role of
technological evolution rather than biological and
genetic determinism as a vital tool for negotiating the
brave new digital world.

carlzim: Through his own idiosyncratic modes of
communication-part medicine show huckster, part Zen
master-he foresaw how television rather than the voting
booth would win elections. He may not have foreseen the
elevation of Bush Jr. to the White House, but he predicted
the global village of e-mail culture, and he imagined cybersex
encounters between
people across the world decades before the technology
existed. His probes included envisioning the computer age
as "an extension of the human nervous system" just as clothes were an
extension of the skin, the wheel an extension of the
foot, and the book an extension of the eye.

carlzim: McLuhan is important because he was the first to
articulate a radical and contemporary understanding of
the new media and the information environment. He
noted, accurately, that in times of innovation "we look
at the present through a rear-view mirror. We march
backwards into the future." The corporate invasion of
the Internet is an example of this. As the virtual
bubble created by venture capitalists evaporates into
the new dot.gone culture, the prospect of a
technological meltdown affects us all. The medium
itself is under threat. With McLuhan to massage our
brains with his prprobes, we can stop looking backwards
and start looking around us at what virtuality really
is.
jutta_schmitt2002: Very interesting. Please continue, Carl.

juttafranz: Continue, Carl. My introductions are also like Castro's speeches
-- nowadays, Chavez' speeches.

carlzim: McLuhan is important because he was the first to
articulate a radical and contemporary understanding of
the new media and the information environment. He
noted, accurately, that in times of innovation "we look
at the present through a rear-view mirror. We march
backwards into the future." The corporate invasion of [...]

carlzim: In the 21st century, The Medium Is
the Massage is a manual for negotiating
our new media. It doesn't even matter, argues McLuhan,
if you never log on, turn on, tune in. "Electronic
information comes from all directions at once, and when
information comes from all directions simultaneously,
you are living in an acoustic world [cyberspace in
today's parlance]. It doesn't matter whether you're
listening or not, the fact is you're getting this
acoustic pattern."

carlzim:
One passage of Medium is the Massage
quotes Indonesia's President Sukarno on the
revolutionary role Hollywood's depiction of Western
affluence played in the post-Colonial upheavals of
Asia. I Love Lucy, it seems, can move mountains as much
as Chairman Mao. Black activists such as Angela Davis
numbered among McLuhan's students. What liberation
ideologies did they take with them from his classes?

carlzim:
Born in 1911 in Edmonton, Alberta, and a convert to
Catholicism in 1937, a religious mystic and political
conservative, he was already in his fifties by the time
he became the sixties' oddest youth icon. Nor did he
engage with the actual media he studied-he was more
bookworm than couch potato. The mediums he studied were
personally foreign to him.

carlzim: His early academic works argued for a kind of
technological determinism, stretching back to the
discovery of the alphabet. Just as the historian Lyn
White suggested that the technology of the stirrup
created the Middle Ages, so McLuhan argued for an
explicit awareness of the technology of communication.
Civilization, he says, proceeded through four major
stages.

jutta_schmitt2002: Continue, Carl.

juttafranz: Excellent info.

carlzim: McLuhan concerned himself. It
is the pattern, he says, in which we see where we
really are. Take a newspaper, for instance, with its
headings, subheadings, stand-firsts, advertisements.
"People don't actually read newspapers," he remarked,
"they get into them every morning like a hot bath."
Rather than climbing into them himself, McLuhan was
more inclined to test the temperature, measure the
level-and pull the plug.

carlzim: The earliest oral tribal cultures were
superceded by the technology of the alphabet, which led
to the concept of the individual, because writing is a
visual medium; we don't read collectively, but alone.
The invention of moveable type drove the linear
development of civilization, as well as concept nationhood
and conquest, while the technology of the ...

carlzim: ... new media-the multimedia-has returned society to an
acoustic, oral tribalism. The mode of society's
communication is for McLuhan much more significant than
its content. Behind the effects lie the pattern, and it
is the pattern with which communications is determined.

nonpositivism: Yes, Carl it is McLuhan's depiction of the 4th stage with
which I have some disagreements. We can return to this later.

jutta_schmitt2002: It seems the mode matters.

jutta_schmitt2002: The medium and the mode.

jutta_schmitt2002: Continue, Carl.

carlzim: McLuhan was neither cheerleader nor
Cassandra for the new medium. "Value judgements create
smog in our culture," he wrote, "and distract attention
from processes." By identifying the processes, we can
liberate ourselves from them. It is up, or down, to us.
We may even end up like the private McLuhan, who
yearned for the pre-electronic era and wished, while
aware of its futility, that the global village he saw
shaping up before him had never arrived.

juttafranz: I'm following attentively .....

carlzim: In your opinion, how will media manipulation of
images obtain support for globalization:
. of manual labor in the developed world when the images show the
   favoritism toward intellectual labor?
. of inhabitants in the 3rd world when the images show the massive
   depopulation by disease, war and "natural" disasters, and special
   privilege of the developed world?

carlzim: That's it! I welcome your comments.

nonpositivism: Very good, Carl. very good intro.

missnaranjahit: Thanks for the informative intro, Carl.

jutta_schmitt2002: Excellent introduction, Carl. Congratulations.

carlzim: You're welcome, guys!

jutta_schmitt2002: Shall we proceed with comments / discussion right away?

carlzim: Yes, please.

juttafranz:
Thanks, Carl, studious, conscientious research work.
Now, either I give my intro (about 15 min.) or we discuss
carl's intro first. In fact the two are complementary,
highlighting another aspect of mass media and communication.
tell we what to do.

nonpositivism: Franz, I think we should comment on Carl's stuff first then
proceed with your intro, then combine all themes, OK?

carlzim: OK with me.

juttafranz: That may take hours, Scott.

juttafranz: But, you have the democratic say, folks!

nonpositivism: No, we can limit the first stage of commentary to 15 - 30 minutes.
Carl, this is something I have wondered about dramatically:

juttafranz: OK, d'accord, the debate can start!!

nonpositivism: When we engage the Internet or other media such as
television for 1:many or many:many live interaction with others
from the global village who may be half-way around this planet it puts the
participants in a "trance" state that is still cool, not "hot" like
tribal communication or early radio. This is my fundamental disagreement
with McLuhan. Had he lived, maybe he would have
changed his mind observing cyber-participation as it actually manifests itself.

jutta_schmitt2002: Carl, can you please identify the four stages civilization
proceeds through according to McLuhan? Are they all
determined by a respective "mode of communication"?

juttafranz: Folks, your comments to Scott's interesting remarks.

jutta_schmitt2002: And why exactly does McLuhan perceive the actual
"stage of communication" as sort of a "regressive" one (if I
got it right from your intro)?

juttafranz: In whose interest is this "mode of communication"?
To "communicate" what? Information? what kind of "information" --
fresh, new, manipulated, virtual, etc.?

carlzim: Scott, please identify the 4 stages of Civilization.

nonpositivism: OK, as I recall:
nonpositivism: 1. Tribal/Acoustic
nonpositivism: 2. Alphabetic/Visual Communication
nonpositivism: 3. Industrial/Mechanical/specialization
nonpositivism: 4. Electric consciousness =>forcing defragmentation
and tribal consciousness on a global scale.

jutta_schmitt2002: Thanks, Scott.

carlzim: Scott, I agree that McCluhan was incorrect on his hot/cool media classifications.

nonpositivism: In the 4th stage Man comes out of the centuries
of specialization and fragmentation of the Industrial Revolution and
emerges with a new kind of global "wholeness" forced upon him by
Transmissions at light-speed 24 hours, 7 days/week.

carlzim: I don't think that happens in the 4th stage.

juttafranz: My problem is very simple, with regard to communication,
media, information. We cannot presuppose that "information" or
"communication" really informs or communicates. It does not make sense
to communicate ideas or discoveries "now" that were
already obsolete decades ago, never mind the "mode" and experimentation
of different "modes". This is in any case the topic in my
introduction, where I will give examples.

carlzim: People are isolated, glued to their cell phones.

carlzim: Good point, Franz! Communication serves the ruling class.

jutta_schmitt2002: I think both, the mode AND the content of the media, are decisive.
As for the "global wholeness" as suggested
here in Venezuela by CNN, Globovisión, Venevisión, Radio Caracas de Televisión and
Televen, we have an outstanding example on
how the main communication media in this country made and keep making politics
to an extent never seen before in this (or probably
any other) country. However, this kind of media warfare, in order to be 100 % effective,
presupposes, of course, an rather passive
and unquestioning attitude - the typical "consumer attitude" - a factor fortunately not
yet entirely given in Venezuela.

juttafranz: Yes, and condemns us to a global "pan et circensus" sociological
debate about communication modes of different
"civilizations", while globalization galacticizes itself.

nonpositivism: Franz, your point is well-taken. However, McLuhan himself would
not disagree. "Information" can vary radically in
significance, quantity and quality. For example, the Electromagnetic Waves we
broadcast 50 years ago are now 50 light-years from
Earth. If someone picked up transmissions of "I Love Lucy" reruns from
American television, what kind of information would that
represent?

jutta_schmitt2002: Interestingly, the information warfare has two sides:
the "alternative media" - amongst them the internet and
community radio stations - have taken up the challenge and are fighting
back against the main stream media with their own facts,
visions and information. The internet was the medium to promote a country-wide
boycott of the four main TV stations and two main
print media, that has begun to severely affect them.

juttafranz: About those ELF-Waves, I'll talk just now, Scott.

juttafranz: Just be patient! Scott.

juttafranz: I told you that the intros are complementray!

jutta_schmitt2002: Carl and Scott, is there any effective use of "alternative media"
against the main stream media and opinion makers
in the USA?

juttafranz: An excellent example, Jutta. We experience it here everyday.
And the "information" quality of it all, is minus zero!

jutta_schmitt2002: Venezuela would be a real case-study with regard to
modern information warfare and the impact of the
mainstream media on politics and attitudes.

nonpositivism: Jutta, the most effective "guerilla" info. warfare comes from what little
exists of community radio. The Internet is the
second most effective source. In my opinion, of course.

carlzim: And it comes from real guerrillas on the web. After chat, join the
Slavic Nationalist forum, and see photos of Bzerzinski with
Pakistani ISP (CIA) guys during Soviet-Afghan conflict in 1980's:
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/thread?forumid=86294&messageid=1028103368&lp=1028164279
You don't see this kind of stuff in conventional media.

juttafranz: And the "community" is "communicated", Scott?
What does it disseminate across its "common" radio? Not the "common
sense" learnt in school, on TV, in the daily newspaper?

jutta_schmitt2002: The very same apply here, Scott. Interestingly, community
radio and also determined internet sites have come
under massive "bombardment" and disacreditation by the mainstream
media, but what the latters ones don't know is, that, this way,
they are effectively making propaganda for these alternative media.

juttafranz: Or did Castro and Chavez teach them alternative modes of life and thinking?
Long Live Castro & Chavez!!!

jutta_schmitt2002: We have even seen the sabotage of critical internet sites,
Carl and Scott - this gives a small insight into their weight
and significance. "Electronic guerilla warfare" - a timely concept for what
is left of the "urban guerillas"?

carlzim: Visit that Bzerzinski URL using IE, not Netscape.

nonpositivism: Haha, yes. these attempts sometimes backfire in this respect.
The best strategy for the dominant interests is to keep the
competing entities off completely - through licensing or capital difficulties. etc.
These methods have worked in homogenizing most
global media for the last century and eliminating most dissent.

juttafranz: Only over the last three years this is happening here, Jutta.
To whose credit must this go now?

jutta_schmitt2002: I think it is a "product of the times" we live in, of the specific
situation Venezuela has been going through, Franz.

jutta_schmitt2002: Carl, we'll visit the site you recommended after the chat.

juttafranz: To Venezuelan democracy, three years ago, backed by the USA?
Or to Chavez, backed by Cuba, and the Cuban
doctors here, looking after the health of the poorest rascals?
juttafranz: Will these communities and their communal radios still exist,
after the Transition Office, in the American Embassy here, has
fulfilled its goal?

jutta_schmitt2002: Franz, all the "poor devils" - the portion of the wretched of the
earth who happen to live in Venezuela, may have
seen their destiny already in the catastrophy of Argentina. They may also have
anticipated their "future" - thanks to the global media" -
of what awaits them in the coming extermination wars. Afghanistan is the most
recent example. They know they will have to die
anyway, anyhow, and this is perhaps why they have taken up some "conscience",
however limited it may be, and taken up the arms
with Chavez against the established status quo.

carlzim: Castro and trafficking:
http://www.newaus.com.au/us276_castros_drug_running.html
http://www.cubacenter.org/media/news_articles/drug.html
Any connection to drug trade in Columbia, Venezuela's neighbor?

juttafranz: And Iraq is next! The poor devils will die like flies --
and CNN will communicate the whole drama!
juttafranz: It will be chilly, exciting, orgastic!

jutta_schmitt2002: They may have to "switch back" to drums, smoke
signals, messenger doves and telepathy, Franz, once the
"transition office" has done away with their alternative media, much to
the delight of McLuhan.

missnaranjahit: Folks, I am sorry, but I have to leave, it was intreresting
listening to you. I have some work left here. I'll leave the
window open and will try to save the chat!

juttafranz: And, we will continue discussing communication theory.

jutta_schmitt2002: Okay Stella, thanks for joining.

juttafranz: Stella, no!

juttafranz: Just await my intro, please!!!

missnaranjahit: Bye all. - Franz I have no choice.

missnaranjahit: I will read it tomorrow!

juttafranz: That's what I feared before, Stella.

missnaranjahit: Just continue, bye!

juttafranz: Bye! Stella!!

jutta_schmitt2002: So, Carl and Scott, shall Franz proceed with his
"follow up" to Carls introduction?

juttafranz: I will before Yahoo and CANTV get angry and wrathful.

nonpositivism: Why not?

juttafranz:
Everything that comes into existence,
Merits to pass away."
(Hegel)

"Seek for thy noble father in the dust:
Thou know'st 'tis common, -- all that live must die,
Passing through nature to eternity."
(The Queen)

"Ay, madam, it is common."
(Hamlet)

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
(Hamlet)
 

juttafranz: “Unsere heutige Wissenschaft
kratzt nur die Oberfläche der
Wirklichkeit an. Was sich
darunter befindet, wissen wir
nicht.”
(Physiker Harald Lesch auf “Space Night”)
 

"Our contemporary natural science just
scratches the surface of reality. Of what is below,
we do not have the foggiest idea."
(Physicist Harald Lesch in "Space Night")
 

jutta_schmitt2002: You are so poetic today, Franz.

juttafranz: I inherited it from you, Jutta.

jutta_schmitt2002: I see.

juttafranz: This is "true" a n d "not-true", as the following example
will demonstrate. 99% of the scientific and philosophic information
already available since ages are not known, are not made public, are
confidential, hidden by the Vatican, the State, the White House,
the Pentagon, NASA. NATO, etc.

jutta_schmitt2002: Parallel information, parallel history, parallel universe?

juttafranz: What we -- the general public -- get as the "latest" inventions and
discoveries, even in schools and universities, are just the
obsolete, rotten crumbs, the inutile saw-dust, falling from
the Warlord's experiment table. There exists such a profound inculcation, an
authoritarian, totalitarian trust not only in God and the $, but in everything that
flows around in newspeak, in what we were taught to
be serious mass communication media, scientific journals and philosophic reviews.

jutta_schmitt2002: A combination of belief and consumer attitude, Franz.

juttafranz: Agreed.

juttafranz: For example, since years, we informed about Weatherwarfare, about HAARP,
who bothers to inform her/himself about this all? of 6 billion, who knows
anything about this advanced war technology, how it is being applied, why,
and what are the effects? Such projects do not only exist in Alaska,
constructed by the US Army, but elsewhere -- in Arecibo, Dushanbe, Gorkcity,
Tromso, Monchegorsk, Sura, and who knows where too! In the Berlin Airport
Tempelhof, Schroeder and Joschka have their own private HAARP!

jutta_schmitt2002: Please explain further, Franz.

juttafranz: Scott, here we go:
Who knows anything about ELF-Waves? How to defend yourself against them?
Because their frequency lies under 100 Hz, that the brain also uses, all sorts
of experiments are being made, to influence our very feelings, emotions and
thoughts.

juttafranz:
Big Brother controls our very bodily organs, directs our health or sickness.
These waves can produce the CFIDS Syndrome, tiredness, cancer, AIDS, etc.
Concerning this, just read the scientific organ, "Raum & Zeit" (109/110). These
waves can be applied from satellite, from hundreds of kilometres, can penetrate the earth and the oceans!

jutta_schmitt2002: Nice perspectives, Franz. No authenticity not even of
our feelings anymore?! Let alone thoughts, acts, etc.

juttafranz: All these brain waves can be affected:
 

-Delta (1-3 Hz.) ... Deep sleep, Coma.

-Theta (4-7 Hz.)... Hypnosis, Trance, Dream.

-Alpha (8-13 Hz.)... Prayers, Meditation, Relaxation.

-Beta (14-40 Hz)... Awakened Situation.
 

carlzim: Folks, the Pentagon recently flew one of its own human-made
UFO's overe Washington, DC:

juttafranz: Coming to that just now, Carl.

carlzim:
F-16s Pursue Unknown Craft Over Region
For Renny Rogers, it was strange enough that military jets
were flying low over his home in Waldorf in the middle of the night. It was
what he thinks he saw when he headed outside to look early yesterday that floored him.
"It was this object, this light-blue object, traveling at a phenomenal rate of speed,"
Rogers said. "This Air Force jet was right behind
it, chasing it, but the object was just leaving him in the dust. I told my neighbor,
'I think those jets are chasing a UFO.' "

juttafranz:
Who knows about Scalar-Waves, built into loud-speakers, into music, used to
transmit "thoughts", ideology, instructions for "sleepers", for "Manchurian
Candidates", for Mkultra victims, to blow up "Twin Towers", to be "human
bombs"? And, we will all argue that this is genetic, biological, coming from the
aggressive Darwinian apes!!

carlzim: Military officials confirm that two F-16 jets from Andrews Air Force
Base were scrambled early yesterday after radar
detected an unknown aircraft in area airspace. But they scoff at the idea that
the jets were chasing a strange and speedy, blue
unidentif
ied flying object.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8131-2002Jul26.html
 

juttafranz: Here it comes, Carl.

juttafranz:
What about our debates concerning "Occult Physics", the "ether", of which Bill
Lyne made us aware, what about the "Pentagon Aliens", the "UFO's", flying in
and out of Los Alamos? Not only Bill says this; it's not his copyrighted "private
intellectual property" -- hundreds of other internet data of all genres and
calibres are available to corroborate his findings. For example, the
astrophysicist Nikolay Kosyrev also "discovered" the ether, and
claimed that it is composed of "gravitons".

juttafranz:
What about the space colonies on the Moon, Mars and elsewhere since
decades, or more? What did Thomas Bearden tell us about the "Energy Crisis",
and did he not predict the "New Wars"? What about Wilhelm Reich's Orgone and
Tesla's New Energy? Who informs us about
them? What do billions know about
the above? What are the implications and complications in our everyday
debates?

carlzim: Tesla, a Serb, shared info. with the Russians.

juttafranz: Indeed, Carl.

juttafranz:
Finally, some time ago, "Raum & Zeit" (116) published a sensational article,
concerning the 'discovery" of Scalar-Waves. apart from the fact, that these
waves verify our very own Trialogics, for example, our Triagory, Rest a n d
Motion AND Relation (Bezug), in the experiment, using gravitational waves,
voices were transmitted between Germany and Russia, even signal
transmission between Germany and Australia. Of course, like in the famous
"discovery" of Christopher Columbus, the "Bushmen" and rabbits must have
done this all along. In my youth, I even received such a message from my dying Aunt Lily!

carlzim: Today, the Russians are inventing Capitalism.

juttafranz: And, who knows this, Carl?

juttafranz:
How is this possible in the universal dimensional cosmic resonator? However,
using the "G-Element und Bioguard", Dr. Mueller made this miracle possible.
Of course, surprise, surprise, using speeds higher than the velocity of light,
which like Don Albert explained, could transmit prayers to God outside the
Universe in minutes, it was discovered that extraterrestrial beings, "aliens"
were already using the scalar waves for their private transmissions. Like in the
case of the "Pentagon Aliens", I would like to inform you that the very Pentagon
War-Mongers knew all this long ago, and that they are using the scalar waves
for their "New Wars" and "Space Colonization".

juttafranz:
So folks, where, when and how do we live?
Well, that's all for today! Your comments are welcome.

nonpositivism: Franz, I like you a lot, but only a devout non-Scientist would
make such a statement about 99% of all Scientific
knowledge being concealed from the general public. This is not the way the
world works. Conspiracy theories collapse in on
themselves, from their own weight.

nonpositivism: The more obvious forms of mind control have been well
articulated by Chomsky. Combining him and McLuhan gives
all the basics.

nonpositivism: In fact, Shakespeare's characters like Marc Antony knew
more about Mind Control than most still do today.

jutta_schmitt2002: Franz: clearly, due to equal, unequal and combined
development, the vast majority of this planet's inhabitants -
especially those who are not part of the "metropoles" - do neither have
a consciousness nor even an interest in this kind of things.
What matters to them, inexorably, is their daily survival, predominantly
based on their physical labour force, and their lives and
conciousness will spin around this axis. Only those who have some
spare time to their disposal, the means and surroundings, will be
able to develop a consciousness and will have the access for this kind of information.

nonpositivism: Sometimes the obvious, more tangible story is the correct one.

juttafranz: Well, you have to include the physicist Harald Lesch too, Scott.

jutta_schmitt2002: However and taking into consideration, that much of the
"classified" information is already available somehow, you
certainly do need the parameters in order to be able to grasp and approach other realities.

carlzim: Hidden stuff on mind control and Tesla:
http://educate-yourself.org/radiantenergystory.html
http://educate-yourself.org/mcindex.html

juttafranz: You have to differentiate between "scientific disinformation",
"hidden knowledge" and that what is disseminated to us -- the
1%, Scott; the news that the earth is flat and static, when Thales was
already predicting a total eclipse of the sun in May 585 BC.
How could he do that with "scientific knowledge" of a geocentric world outlook?

nonpositivism: sorry folks, must take a brief hiatus. May or may not be back,
depending on business and phone calls here.........in the
interim this window will remain open.

jutta_schmitt2002: The most worrisome aspect here is the high
probability (if not reality), that many and most of "us" today are like
the Polynesians at the arrival of Captain Cook. They did not see his
caravels, but only when the canoes were lowered into the water,
would they notice something. What do we not see, in this sense?

jutta_schmitt2002: Okay Scott.

carlzim: http://www.skolnicksreport.com/cocaccc.html

juttafranz: Okay, Scott. Beware of the Eclipse of Reason, of the "Eyes of March"!

carlzim: Skolnick's Report:
carlzim: http://www.skolnicksreport.com/cocaccc.html

carlzim: OK, Scott: Beware of the Jabberwocky.

carlzim: Thanks for joining the chat, Scott.

jutta_schmitt2002: Carl, do you actually think mind control is still
necessary in "the metropoles" today, given the fact, that most
people are only interested in consuming and in simply "living their
lives away", and do not give "a damn" about politics - national or
international?

jutta_schmitt2002: (Clarification please: what is a "Jabberwocky"?)

juttafranz: The only thing still necessary, Jutta, is to get hold of the
few "Winstons" and give them a full ELF-dosis!!!

carlzim: Jutta, mind control is necessary in crisis situations.

jutta_schmitt2002: The question is: is this really necessary?
Are the few "Winstons" a threat to a system, that we may well see
implode in itself?

carlzim: And to control opposing military.

jutta_schmitt2002: Carl, do you think there is a split in the US
armed forces, say, with regard to a section favouring Bush and his
corporate agenda, and another section not in favour?

carlzim: Jaberwocky is a fantasy character in Lewis Carrol's Alice in Wonderland.

jutta_schmitt2002: Thanks, Carl.

juttafranz: Jutta, as Carl indicated, in "times of crisis", individuals,
individual minds become so social, so historic, so transhistoric, as
never ever 'before", and billions become so atomized, that a single
ontic spark could set the whole global, globalized US prairie on
emancipatory fire.

jutta_schmitt2002: You mean the very Chávez example, Franz?

juttafranz: Yes, but anybody that transcends the universal system,
that blows a hole into the monolithic status quo, could scare the hell
out of homo homini lupus!

jutta_schmitt2002: What are the "objective" conditions - other than a dire
reality pushing towards thought - for emancipatory efforts
in this sense, Franz?

juttafranz: For sure, knowledge is "power", and one individual,
having real transhistoric knowledge, could be invisible, invulnerable
and invincible. Europe has proved the eating of this pudding, and now the
USA follows the same trail.

jutta_schmitt2002: Carl, I repeat for you: do you think there is a split
in the US armed forces, say, in the sense of a section favouring
Bush and his corporate agenda, and another section not favouring
Bush and his corporate agenda?

juttafranz: Who has the first and only knowledge about atomic bombs,
laser beam weapons, scalar waves, Tesla technology is, of
course, a real danger --- and not Bin Laden, Castro or Hussein, that Bush
would like us to make-believe.

jutta_schmitt2002: Given our many critical observations with regard
to "knowledge", we should rather say unknowledge, Franz, or
transknowledge perhaps.

carlzim: Jutta, I don't think there's a split in armed forces. It pays well.

juttafranz: Correct, Jutta! Transwisdom, Transemancipation,
Transvolution, Deus transvoluzzionis!

jutta_schmitt2002: Thanks, Carl. Money over conscience and
ethics - that's a mighty "factor of unity" I must admit. The mightiest of
all.

juttafranz: OK, Folks, time to cook a meal, I'm also a bit in
"slow motion" today -- have a slight cold, am sweating. Could we stop
here today?

juttafranz: I enjoyed the chat as usual. Thanks, Carl for a real informative introduction.

juttafranz: Must get some Vitamin C!

jutta_schmitt2002: Carl, thanks for your excellent introduction.
I enjoyed it very much and will certainly re-read it again.

carlzim: OK, guys. Feel better, Franz.

juttafranz: Folks, please send all your texts to Stella, to check what may be absent.
juttafranz: I trust in the $, in God, but not in Yahoo!

jutta_schmitt2002: I saved the whole transcript and will send it to Stella, Franz.

carlzim: I will send to Stella, Franz.

juttafranz: OK, Carl. Greetings to Fran!!!

jutta_schmitt2002: Be well Carl and until next time. Best regards to Fran.

juttafranz: OK, Jutta!!!

jutta_schmitt2002: Bye all.

juttafranz: Bye!!!

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